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INS alignment issue (Read 1480 times)
Tarasdad
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INS alignment issue
Jun 3rd, 2007, 10:25pm
 
Today I installed the CIVA INS system in my Dreamfleet 727 (using the single-click installer downloaded from avsim.com (ins4df727v2.2.zip)). Since I had flown that aircraft to Bermuda yesterday that's where I decided to start today. I went through the INS startup procedure as outlined in your manual, but during alignment the accuracy never went below 6. I gave it between 30 and 45 minutes and it never dropped. PPOS value was obtained via SHIFT+Z.

Any suggestions on what might be going on?
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Marco Ravanello
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #1 - Jun 4th, 2007, 9:16am
 
That is normally due to the fact that the present position has not been entered correctly or at all.
When entering the present position do not press the INSERT key twice after latitude, press it just ONCE, then enter longitude, press it again, and the INSERT light will extinguish.

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David Rogers
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #2 - Jun 4th, 2007, 4:53pm
 
Hey,

The one thing that is not well covered in the documentation is where you receive on 06 warning, as soon as you enter your position (is the red light coming on, on the CDU as soon as you enter your PPOS?).

This error is where FS gets confused because it thinks you've moved the plane since your last flight and it can't figure out how....  Wink

All you need to do if this happens is press and hold the TEST button (the auto/manual knob) which clears the error.  Your alignment will then continue and you'll get that magic green NAV light on the overhead!  Smiley

(The alignment will NOT continue until this Warning light is cleared - hence so many people get stuck at this point).

David.
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Tarasdad
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #3 - Jun 5th, 2007, 1:02am
 
No warning light, and the LAT/LON are entered correctly, and are reading correctly in the display. I have gone through this multiple times with the same result. The alignment will continue until the accuracy reads 6, then it stops. I haven't been able to try it at another airport yet to see if it's just Bermuda or the scenery I have for there that's the issue or if it's something else.
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Tarasdad
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #4 - Jun 5th, 2007, 8:41pm
 
Tried it again yesterday and (as far as I can tell) did nothing different, but this time it aligned - sort of. It's a dual installation, and the left unit aligned but the right wouldn't. So I powered the off and started over again, and this time both aligned. Haven't flown but just the one flight so far, but they worked perfectly. Now for another question...

For installations to multiple aircraft do you put the gauge in each aircraft's folder, then reference that in the panel.cfg? Or should you just leave the one gauge file and reset your PPOS each time?
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Marco Ravanello
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #5 - Jun 5th, 2007, 11:34pm
 
> For installations to multiple aircraft do you put the gauge in each aircraft's folder, then reference that in
> the panel.cfg? Or should you just leave the one gauge file and reset your PPOS each time?

Keep the gauge file where it is, it cannot be moved elsewhere.
But you could use the fifth parameter of the INS!config gauge to have different .ISD files (where the ins saves its data) for different aircrafts. See PanelIntegrationManual.pdf, Configuration Files chapter.
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didi0226
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #6 - Jun 7th, 2007, 7:57pm
 
Hi Everyone,
First of all Thank you for such a good and professional product.
It adds for sure a lot to the reality of flying old birds.
I've been using it with the rfp 747 for many years now and it work really well.

But today i encounter the same problem during aligment,i get the red warning just after entering the pos and i clear it ans swith to align and it will get stuck with no error message to 6 (65) for hours and i never get the green light.
This happens with the df727 also,i've deleted the .isd file with no success.
It also happen in the bahamas with the mynn from imaginesim scenery.
Don't know what it is all aboout ver civa 1.50 build 1117.
Anyhelp with this issue welcome.

Thx again to Marco and the other  contributors for such a project! Cool
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Marco Ravanello
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #7 - Jun 8th, 2007, 8:47am
 
> civa 1.50 build 1117

Version 1.50 is build #2242, what's 1117?

Could you please provide us the exact lat/long the plane is parked at, plus the exact keys sequence you type in the CDU to "program" the present position?

Also note that deleting the .ISD file does not bring any advantage, only disadvantages.

Marco
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arhitas_1
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #8 - Jun 10th, 2007, 10:55am
 
Hello everybody
Marco I have the same problem with tthe INS alinghnment.
I use the B-734 FS9, I am at the begining of the rwy,parking brakes on
no wind,engines running. no movement..
As soon as I enter the ppos(shift z), after few seconds the red w/l comes on.
I go to dsrtrk/sts, and I press the test sw, few times, it clears the sts window,
I get the 8s on the display (left and right),but the light is still on.
Mind you,with the light on, I can enter the 9 waypoints, and after t/off ,by selecting the INS the plane will go there,will fly on all waypoints.!!
Thank you
Ioannis
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arhitas_1
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #9 - Jun 10th, 2007, 1:16pm
 
Hello again.. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Well Marco and everybody, I have just finished a nine waypoint flight,on the 734 fs9, from Seattle rwy 34,landing 16.WITH NO PROBLEMS as far as the INS alighnment,and the rest of the operation.
The secret Marco and everybody,is the dumn INSERT key!!!(you had mentioned that Marco Grin
I was pressing it only ONCE!! ,never mind if the light was still on after pressing,I ignored it,and kept inserting the data,using the remote,and there was no problem.
At time 13:06 (Athens lt) after the threshold position rwy 34 KSEA was entered
(engines runing parking brake on) at 13:13 reached sts 6 and at 13:20 sts 5
and ready nav lt came on...
After landing I checked the accuracy (dist/time) and both showed 1 nm to the present pos.(3 hrs flt) not bad ... Smiley
Thank you
All the best
Ioannis
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prowler
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #10 - Jul 18th, 2007, 10:17pm
 
I have often wondered why the "INSERT" key acts differently when inputting present position as opposed to inputting waypoints. The key doesn't change after the first (N or S) entry...it should go dark, I think, like it does on waypoint entry?

A very small matter, IMHO.

Vic
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Gianfranco Corrias
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #11 - Jul 19th, 2007, 10:06am
 
hi,
the ramp position LAT and LONG are part of a UNIQUE insertion entry.
Unlike waypoint insertion,where it's possible to change only LAT or LONG and after LAT or LONG insertion you can notice the INSERT light going OFF,If something goes wrong in any part of ramp LAT and /or LONG insertion the complete insertion must be carryied out again starting from the beginning.
That's the why the INSERT Light doesn't go off after the LAT insertion but you have to insert both LAT and LONG to obtain the INSERT light extinguished.
About the Alignment stop at API 6 this isn't an issue but the normal INS behaviour.
It's due to a Ramp position not inserted or not accepted by the INS because wrongly made or for a pending ACTION&MALFUNCTION code.
As written on the Operation manual you can first switch the MSU selector to ALIGN or NAV and before or at API6 insert the ramp position,because till API 6 the INS doesn't need to know the ramp position.
Pushing twice the INSERT button after LAT insertion is considered a wrongly made insertion and moreover cannot be recognized because,as said above, the INSERT light remains on until the LONG will be inserted.
When you have this alignment stop at API6 make this little ck list:
1-With Data selector on DSRTK/STS ck ACTION&MALFUNCTION codes and eventually clear it by TEST button pushing.
2-Reinsert the complete ramp position paying attention to push once the INSERT button after the LAT insertion.
Hoping this helps Gianfranco
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prowler
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #12 - Jul 20th, 2007, 1:46am
 
Well, that explains it, Gianfranco. Thanks!

Vic
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toelg
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #13 - Aug 4th, 2007, 8:22pm
 
Hi,

I'm using the CIVA with the Dreamfleet 727. I had also problems with the alignment of  the INS. There always apeared the ACTION&MALFUNCTION codes:

02-63 Randomly failure and

04-57 Taxi during alignment
(Although the parking-brake was set and the throttle on idle.)

I have found out, that the best way to keep away ACTION&MALFUNCTION codes, is to initiate the alignment only with running the APU (before starting engines) . After finish of the alingment, I start the engines and now everything works well.  

Best regards !
Dietmar
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prowler
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #14 - Aug 4th, 2007, 11:18pm
 
Dietmar,

I have noticed that my DF 727 will "crawl" if the engines are started...even with parking brake set. I believe the answer is to tap the "F2" once which will put the engines in ground idle? That still won't prevent it from moving before you get to tap the F2 key so...I do what you suggested...align with APU power then pushback and start engines after the alignment is complete.

Vic
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toelg
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Re: INS alignment issue
Reply #15 - Aug 7th, 2007, 11:07pm
 
Hi Vic,

I am very surprised, that the aircraft is crrawling with throttle on idle even with parking brakes set. But it is very important to know that. So this explains the behavior of CIVA very well, and this to know bewares us of fustrated waiting of failed alingment.

Thanks for Your reply !
      Dietmar

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